Curious about using lights without reflectors

[Hamunaptralion]

I see these grows with just a bulb hanging from a wire and it makes me wonder what the difference would be....I assume that a reflector cocnentrates the light and stops it from going upward. But if you have a good reflecive material on all surfaces, including the ceiling, wouldn't it reflect back down anyways? And, wouldn't the light have a larger horizontal range, perhaps not as intense, but larger lighting coverage? Also, wouldn't the heat diffuse into the room better without a reflector...when I put my hand under my reflector it feels pretty hot, but when I put it above the reflector, there is not as much heat - that is my reasoning on the heat subject...Can you hang any bulb vertically, or do you need a special bulb?

[chopstick]

If you plan on growing with one light only then I suggest you get a reflector to maximise the amount of light your plants recieve. Growers that use multiple lights don't necessarily need them because they have so many it doesn't make much difference. But using one light you want to get as much of it aimed downwards on to your plants as possible.
And yes you're right, there is also a heat factor to the reflectors, by removing them you can cut heat by a few degrees, thus growers with many lights tend to remove them cutting the temp substantially.

[CLOSETGROWTH]

I like the idea of putting mylar on the ceiling..:wink: CG http://www.growkind.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[greenthumb420]

The thing i see about putting mylar on the ceiling is.....by the time it hits the ceiling and is reflected down you probably lose intensity.

[Sativa Medical]

If you create a enclosed mylar area it will be a big enough reflector all around. So your plant will recieve lights from every angle which the growth will be enormous.

[Seizure Dude]

Thats what Im doing now...Have a reflective material connected to all 4 sides of the light, it hangs down 3 feet.Sort of looks like a large, reflective box with no bottom... hanging from and connected to the edges of the reflector .The plants fit up inside the reflective box.just like an all mylar grow cabinet with no bottom. Its flexible and can be removed on one side for easy access to the plants...The next step is to get some mylar and use velcro to connect it all 4 sides of the light.Virtually no light is wasted and the material is light and easy to move... works perfectly for my size grow.Considering my light is only 250w this method helps alot and heat really isnt an issue because of the fan running constantly...Since doing this the plants have grown much larger and quicker.

[gardener]

Does the plant only abosorb light on the top of the leaves or any surface of the leaves or any surface that is green and above ground?

[hempdaze]

(Edited by hempdaze at 7:19 pm on Jan. 21, 2003)

[Ropeadopehead]

I used to have a mirror over my bed when I was a bachelor...he he he....:o.......those were the days,......:)

That whole mylar on the ceiling thing brought back a lot of memories .....jk

[hellostupid]

:alien:Reflectors are natural heatsinks...thatz why they get so hot. Plus they prevent hot spotz by diffusing the light intensity! Any plant directly underneath the lamp is gauranteed to roast without a reflector!

:light:I consider reflectors a necessity when it comes to HID lighting!!!

:confused:Mylar- icing on the cake only!!!


(Edited by ismoke2much at 5:26 am on Jan. 28, 2003)

[toolhead]

Uh I beg to differ with ya. I have my 400 watt hps about 6" from the tops of my plants without a reflector.When the reflector was on the light had to be about 12" from the tops. Since removing the reflector my babies are growing at about 2" a day!

[newfie]

Im doing the same thing as you toolhead. My light which is a 400 watt hangs about 4" from my babies and if I put my hand at the tops of my plants I dont feel a lot of heat. My cabinet is painted all white and i'm sure lots of light gets to where my girls need it the most. I see huge growth rates aswell.

[MrBoJangles]

Yeah - refelctors concentrate the light AND heat (as a side effect)....they are useful for concentrating light, but they increase the temp so much underneath the light....thats one plsu in a small space, is to not use a reflector, and just make the whole friekin place a reflector by lining all the walls with mylar or whatever.....I have even thought that it might be more advantageous to use just a bulb with a circular light mover so that it could cycle around all sides of the space....that would be cool....if you had the right space for it

[toolhead]

I need to come up with a way to suspend my 400 watt hps horizontally on my next grow without the reflector. I have it vertically right now without the reflector and am racking my brain on how to hang it vertically without the reflector. I can take the hood off of my reflector but then the sides block some of the light. Any ideas?

[Budweiser 3]

i know it sound's cheezzy but what about a coat-hanger,ya could tie a single knott in your power cord then run yer coat hanger through it and hang it verticly from celing?http://www.growkind.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? just a thought dude!!!!!!!

[newfie]

Right now do you just have the ceramic base and bulb attached to your bulb right? Well what I did was take a thick plastic plate that had the middle cut out and I just fitted the ceramic part to the plastic. Then I drilled a hole on the top of my cabinet where the plastic is attached with by a screw.

Another way I was going to do was get a piece of wood and do the exact same thing. This would work better because its stronger.

[hellostupid]

:alien: *PARABOLIC REFLECTORS
http://www.overgrow.com/iss4/aircooled_reflector_JS/dual_parabola.jpg
:confused:Maybe i wuz wrong about a reflector reducing heat stress...my bad.

:confused:So using you're guyz/galz line of reasoning: Not having a reflector reduces heat....and thatz why your plants aren't roasting, am i right? But unfortunely, a 30% loss of back bulb lumens would be a costly side affect!!! *Flat white paint & mylar ain't gonna be enough to recoup it I bet...
:confused:I assume u growers are using a remote ballast as well. *Now if your 400w HPS light was a fixture(no remote ballast)...then thatz how a reflector would make a great heatsink i'm sure...

:beer:Less light and they're growin' better? How could that be you ask? *It'z definitely becuz they have less heat i guess.

If you guyz had the proper ventilation in tandem with a good reflector...you'll have a better yield...

:shocked: *Parabolic Reflector = 30% higher yield!!!
Now that is a fact, not fiction folkz! *I know fer a fact why light reflectors are called,"light reflectors"...they reflect light...and unfortunately...heat!!! *

:light:I'll hafta agree that light reflectors make bad heatsinks though...

:confused:If I offered any of you fellow growers a $100 *light reflector...would you guyz actually refuse to take it? *C'mon seriously folkz...why do u guyz think light reflectors go fer so much on the internet? *Why? *Becuz they work!!!

I wuz wrong about the reflector reducing heat. So what. *But I know your plants are missing out on the HID bulbs back lighting Big Time!!! *Reflectors are required to "reflect" all that potential lumens!!!
-------------------------------------------------------
:alien:Overgrow.com Reflectors 101

:light:Without a reflector around a bulb, half the light would shine up on the ceiling and walls, where it's basically wasted, even if reflective material is there. The best hoods not only redirect the stray light down to the plants, they disperse it evenly and avoid overly bright areas (those "hot spots" we mentioned). One feature of a good reflector is that you cannot see the bulb when looking at the unit from the side. Remember, we want to light the plants, not the walls! (The one exception is if plants will be grown around the sides of the bulb, occasionally done by some micro-cabinet growers.)
-----------------------------------------------------

Think about it. *A $100 investment into a good "parabolic reflector" will increase your yield by 30 percent! *30% Folkz...that'z a sizeable difference fellow growers.

Build one from scratch if ya hafta. *Thatz what i'm doin' now. *I'm almost finished with my custom built air cooled parabolic reflector...i jus' hafta paint it white now...

Hey if I ever hit tha Megabuckz in Vegas...i'll be sure to buy each of u guyz/galz a nice parabolic reflector fer X-mas..
...but fer now....you'll hafta acquire your own!!!!

:cool:happy growin:smokin:

http://www.overgrow.com/iss4/aircooled_reflector_JS/reflector1.html


(Edited by ismoke2much at 6:00 am on Jan. 29, 2003)

[hydro convert]

I have a reflector, but he the bulb is enclosed with tempered glass. Therefore I get all (?) the lumens and the heat is contained within the reflector unit. The reflector also has vents on the front and back sides as well as the top to allow heat to dissipate.

[Administrator]

Hydro I have heard it said that the tempered glass reduces lumen output somewhat, but keeping the heat away allows you to get th plants closer to the light so it may balance itself out.

[hydro convert]

The glass itself is 1"-2" inches from the plants. The bulb itself is about 4". So far, no ill effects. 25 days to go.

[Budweiser 3]

so reflectors are good and bad depends on yer set-up i guess "HUh"

[hellostupid]

Dual Parabolic Reflector Connected to an exhaust bath fan...
http://www.overgrow.com/iss4/aircooled_reflector_JS/thumb_dual_parabola.jpg * * * *http://www.overgrow.com/iss4/aircooled_reflector_JS/thumb_painting.jpg<!-- !-- !-- <!-- !-- !-- <!-- !-- !-- <!-- !-- !-- <!-- !-- !-- lookz like this...
:light:I've finished painting my custom built 400w light reflector with remote ballast... :light:

I used a high temperature flat white spray paint. *8 coatingz of it!!! *Just the inside only!!!

Itz a dual parabolic reflector(20" long x 16" wide) with an 1/8" tempered glass installed!!! *The 50,000 lumen HPS bulb is only 3" away from the glass!!! *I have a rectangular intake vent sitting right underneath the bulb. *A 3" diameter metal exhaust vent hose sits directly on the opposite end!!! *This metal exhaust hose will be *directly connected *to a bath fan(50cfm for $10) sharing a common light timer...

Odor Problemz: *I plan to build a 5 walled filter&charcoal cover for the exhaust bath fan. *I hope there aren't too much back pressure caused by the 5 walled filter/charcoal cover...we'll see...

:light:This dual parabolic reflector is as bright as the sun!!!:light: *Can't even look at the reflector...i hafta look at the walls instead!!! *I actually used the Pythagorean Theorem for the very first time!!! *"High" School really did pay off!!! *Yes!:biggrin: *I also had to use the Pi R squared formula also. *Although my intake vent is a rectangle ...it has the same area as my 3" exhaust hole....all thanx to Pi R squared...

:cool:Now all I hafta do is build my 4'x4' growbox with itz own separate venting system!!!

:smokin:Damn do I need a digicam bad!!! *Then i don't hafta type so much...instead of ismoke2much i should be labelled as itype2much....:pimp:

:light:happy growin:beer:


(Edited by ismoke2much at 6:48 pm on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Administrator]

Pythagorean eh? I used to use it all the time in my trade. It's a must for conduit bending....;)

[mistical]

good post . like,mutcccho grciiiiias

[hellostupid]

:alien:You're right Herbsparky....I did a few of 90 degree bending with my galvanized sheet metal. *Using tha Pythagorean formula worked like a charm!

:confused:I already knew the dimensions of my glass base(20" long x 16" wide). So my hypotenuse would hafta be at least 16" in width!!!

:beer:So i hadta use the pythagorean formula to calculate how long my Main Reflector torso would hafta be before bending it a 90 degree angle....as to match my 16" hypotenuse glass base width.

:cool:So with the pythagorean formula- i figured out that the width of the sheet metal must be 24"...which is 12" on each side after making the 90 degree bend. *So my hypotenuse would end up being 17"...just enough clearance for my 16" width tempered glass base to snuggly slide in!!!

:beer:For my dual parabola design-i use an extra piece of rectangular sheet metal bent and mounted az an upside down "V" inside the main top ceiling of my reflector hood. I had ta use the pythagorean formula here as well. The dual arches of my parabolic insert hadto match the width of my HPS 50,000 lumen bulb!!! My bulb width ended up being my Hypotenuse for my upside down parabolic insert sheet metal. So my bulb back lighting will reflect downwardz to tha plantz without my bulb gettin in the way!!! Parabolaz & Pythagoream Theorem...aahhh...i like....:cheesy:

:light:NOTE: *everybody must try Herbsparky's JOG method at least once in they're grow! *The JOG method produces the shortest&most bushiest plants i have ever seen!!!

(Edited by ismoke2much at 8:08 pm on Jan. 30, 2003)

[Administrator]

Right on man. I see you know how to think....I like that ;) You should see some of the pipe-racks I have installed. Imagine having 4",3",2",1 1/2",1", and 3/4" conduits running together and then branching out to their respective destinations all on one rack that has multiple layers. I have done a lot of commercial work like that, and the **** looks sweet when it's done. It's crucial to see angles and use math in such endeavors. You can really tell the pros from the 'good enoughs'. I am well known for my pipe bending skills, but I owe it all to good mentors that had patience with me, being good at math, and being able to vision things in my mind before I build them...;)

You have access to a metal break?

[hellostupid]

:biggrin:To be honest herbsparky, i don't even know what a "metal break" iz...so i guess i'll hafta say "no"...:cheesy:
http://www.growkind.com/gardens/Herbsparky/392/SetupZG.jpg

:light: I still remember that pic of your "horizontal air flow" grow chamber that looked like it was built by N.A.S.A....it still blows my mind...
...u da man herbsparky...no joke...:light:


(Edited by ismoke2much at 2:38 am on Jan. 31, 2003)